Crimson Teeth General Fiction

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:48 am

Okay.

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:30 am



Camaxtli’s origin outline:
Boy grows up in broken city.

Rallies some of city folk

Boy tricks floating city to come and get him and his people. Takes that shit over, and really likes having more stuff.

Leaves the rest of the city people behind. (This will bother him later)

Man continues takes over sky cities, using strategies and tactics that suit the situation. Is really into the whole “Having the most stuff” kind of mentality

Emperor shows up, tells him about the crusade. Dude agrees.

Man moves to space eager to take over shit and claim their swag.

Man finds himself out of his element: all these badasses with their culture and badass armies. (We could have him appear, and associate with, the more ‘cultural’ primarchs early on. Most of them find him repugnant) Grows a pressing need to look the part and ‘be the best’ of the badasses.


+NOTE: Outline is intentionally incomplete and open to editing. The writer does not plan to push the outline further until the current points have been written+

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:25 am

The vibrant world of Chalchihuitl is an unassuming deathworld within the [segmentum]. The ringed world of Chalchihuitl is home to a vast ecosystem almost entirely hostile to human beings, from its plants and birds, to its mammalian predators, near every living thing on the planet poses danger to its homo-sapien inhabitants. Yet despite the environment of their home humans have managed to survive, and in some cases thrive, on this world.

It is unknown how humans first came upon the world, or the origin of the floating cities peppering its surface such knowledge lost long ago. The only certainty is the constant state of war the cloud cities hold against one another as they vie for resources and power. Such is the way it was for generations when a shooting star hit one of these cities and sent it crashing to the dirt.

The naked child that would become Camaxtli was discovered five years later by a family of cannibalistic scavengers. Awed by his health and marklessness, the scavengers adopted him and taught him what skills they knew.

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:03 am

The vibrant world of Chalchihuitl is an unassuming deathworld within the [segmentum]. The ringed world of Chalchihuitl is home to a vast ecosystem almost entirely hostile to human beings, from its plants and birds, to its mammalian predators, near every living thing on the planet poses danger to its homo-sapien inhabitants. Yet despite the environment of their home humans have managed to survive, and in some cases thrive, on this world.

It is unknown how humans first came upon the world, or the origin of the floating cities peppering its surface such knowledge lost long ago. The only certainty is the constant state of war the cloud cities hold against one another as they vie for resources and power. Such is the way it was for generations when a shooting star hit one of these cities and sent it crashing to the dirt.

The naked child that would become Camaxtli was discovered five years later by a family of cannibalistic scavengers. Awed by his health and marklessness, the scavengers adopted him and taught him what skills they knew. They were amazed by his rapid growth and learning skills, absorbing all information he comes across and able to recall it with remarkable clarity.


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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Uriel on Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:56 pm

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Leaves the rest of the city people behind. (This will bother him later)
The leaving people behind doesn't add anything to the story, and/or the regret doesn't make sense if you keep it, when in context of his proposed personality.

Having people around you that you can trust is always important. And the idea of a single guy - even a primarch - taking over a city alone is ridiculous.
Even the shitty primarchs are leaders before they are anything else. It's their genetic programming.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:The vibrant world of Chalchihuitl is an unassuming deathworld
Unassuming is definitely the wrong world when you have floating cities, a ring around the planet, and *everything* is trying to kill you. Safe and boring places are unassuming. Dangerous places will be noticed because they are dangerous.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:homo-sapien inhabitants
probably easier to just use the word human. And if they aren't native to the world, wouldn't they be settlers or colonists?

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Such is the way it was for generations when a shooting star hit one of these cities and sent it crashing to the dirt.

This is very awkwardly worded. As are a few other parts of the small snippet of text you've posted.
Try making sentences simpler and to the point, rather than aiming for 'well-written' and/or complex etc. It will be easier for you, and the reader.


Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Chalchihuitl
Definitely think the world name should not be Chalchihuitl. It's not accessible, and planet names don't often have a theme consistent with the culture that exists there. Try something bland and gothic. It will fit the universe, and be easier for readers.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:The naked child that would become Camaxtli was discovered five years later by a family of cannibalistic scavengers. Awed by his health and marklessness, the scavengers adopted him and taught him what skills they knew. They were amazed by his rapid growth and learning skills, absorbing all information he comes across and able to recall it with remarkable clarity.
This doesn't seem to be the same Camaxtli that was discussed in the skype chat.
Why the change, and what is he supposed to be now?

Also; if he's going to be raised by a family, they should find him as a babe. By 5 most primarchs are well into their learning probably closer to 18ish in life experience. And if he's survived all that time without them, as a baby>toddler etc on his own in a "completely" inhospitable land, I have certain doubt that there is anything they could teach him.

A general issue with primarchs childhood's is the lack of logical consistency with their rapid aging (which is only really problematic while still babies and toddlers).
Skip this problem by having him be found as a baby, without any time surviving alone, and the suspension of disbelief is sidestepped deftly.

Just remember: Keep the primarch story generic, short, and sweet. Don't get into detail. Save that for when you have the legion finished, and start producing writefaggotry. Do not let this become a big distraction and take up loads of time. Primarchs are temporary characters. That doesn't mean they can't be cool. But you should be able to get their character across in a paragraph or 2 at most. The wiki entry for the primarch page can have more in it, but writing long and intricate stories for his entire youth will leave the reader fatigued by the time they get to the relevant parts of the Great Crusade and then the Heresy. Which is the 2 most important parts of this entire project.


In future, try and post larger chunks. Ie write a whole section before you post it. It will save a lot of time, and not get ridiculously confusing to keep track of for you, I, and others.
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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:31 pm

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Leaves the rest of the city people behind. (This will bother him later)
The leaving people behind doesn't add anything to the story, and/or the regret doesn't make sense if you keep it, when in context of his proposed personality.

Well it depends on your understanding of greed. Greediness can lead to remorse over the loss of possessions. If he views people in his birth-city as his possessions then its reasonable to assume he would feel bad about letting some of them go/leaving them behind.

Uriel wrote:
Having people around you that you can trust is always important. And the idea of a single guy - even a primarch - taking over a city alone is ridiculous.
Even the shitty primarchs are leaders before they are anything else. It's their genetic programming.

First: Nighthaunter = Entire planet by himself
Second: I don't intend to do that and haven't reached that part of the story yet.

Uriel wrote:
Unassuming is definitely the wrong world when you have floating cities, a ring around the planet, and *everything* is trying to kill you. Safe and boring places are unassuming. Dangerous places will be noticed because they are dangerous.
Alright


Uriel wrote:
probably easier to just use the word human. And if they aren't native to the world, wouldn't they be settlers or colonists?
I didn't think it was important to clarify their origins. Just describe the inhabitants as they are/were.

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Such is the way it was for generations when a shooting star hit one of these cities and sent it crashing to the dirt.
This is very awkwardly worded. As are a few other parts of the small snippet of text you've posted.
Try making sentences simpler and to the point, rather than aiming for 'well-written' and/or complex etc. It will be easier for you, and the reader.

I know. I was just pulling something out to put on paper. It's all going to be really rough right now until it has been edited.

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Chalchihuitl
Definitely think the world name should not be Chalchihuitl. It's not accessible, and planet names don't often have a theme consistent with the culture that exists there. Try something bland and gothic. It will fit the universe, and be easier for readers.

Don't the locals name their worlds? Or is it that the Imperium names the world and whatever it was called before is ignored and forgotten?

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:The naked child that would become Camaxtli was discovered five years later by a family of cannibalistic scavengers. Awed by his health and marklessness, the scavengers adopted him and taught him what skills they knew. They were amazed by his rapid growth and learning skills, absorbing all information he comes across and able to recall it with remarkable clarity.
This doesn't seem to be the same Camaxtli that was discussed in the skype chat.
Why the change, and what is he supposed to be now?
Same as planned I thought. The comet is his pod, so he spends four years moving around after the city crashes. I assumed no one would go and check what *caused* the crash when they are too busy trying not to be eaten by the jungle. Once a fragile semblance of sustainability is created there's really no one left who can determine why and to many it no longer matters. So his appearance as a bare-skinned, tattooless child surviving alone in the city is extremely noteworthy. I wanted something more tangible than "the man thought there was something different about the child" and give some genuine notability.  

Also; if he's going to be raised by a family, they should find him as a babe. By 5 most primarchs are well into their learning probably closer to 18ish in life experience. And if he's survived all that time without them, as a baby>toddler etc on his own in a "completely" inhospitable land, I have certain doubt that there is anything they could teach him.

Uriel wrote:
A general issue with primarchs childhood's is the lack of logical consistency with their rapid aging (which is only really problematic while still babies and toddlers).
Skip this problem by having him be found as a baby, without any time surviving alone, and the suspension of disbelief is sidestepped deftly.
What's the difference between this childhood and Lionel Johnson's?

Uriel wrote:
In future, try and post larger chunks. Ie write a whole section before you post it. It will save a lot of time, and not get ridiculously confusing to keep track of for you, I, and others.

Will do.

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:03 pm

Note: This writing is really shitty right now and needs updating. It’s simply been pushed out to get something on the page. Critique is still appreciated and will be taken into account.

The vibrant world of [Tobedetermined] is a deathworld within the [segmentum]. The ringed world of [Tobedetermined] is home to a vast ecosystem almost entirely hostile to human beings, from its plants and birds, to its mammalian predators, near every living thing on the planet poses danger to its human inhabitants. Yet despite the environment of their home human beings have managed to survive, and in some cases thrive, on this world.
It is unknown how humans first came upon the world, or the origin of the floating cities peppering its surface such knowledge lost long ago. The only certainty is the constant state of war the cloud cities hold against one another as they vie for resources and power. Such is the way it was for generations when a shooting star hit one of these cities and sent it crashing to the dirt.
The naked child that would become Camaxtli was discovered five years later by a family of cannibalistic scavengers. Awed by his health and marklessness, the scavengers adopted him and taught him what skills they knew. They were amazed by his rapid growth and learning skills, absorbing all information he comes across and able to recall it with remarkable clarity. Soon Cama was heralded as a deliverer, a divine guide to free the peoples from their ruin. He waged several wars within the city and secured some safety and food for his people. Yet Camaxtli knew that his success would not last: the jungle grew faster every day and raiders sent from other cities were bleeding him dry. Thus he devised a plan.

When the raiders came again a flag of surrender flew over Camaxtli’s city, held aloft by the primarch himself. He convinced the raiders to go to their leaders and meet with him, promising his resources and people as reward if they listened. When they arrived Camaxtli explained the degradation and slow death of his people. How they struggled to hold off the jungle’s tide every day and that they could no longer stand against the powerful cloud cities who could assail them at their leisure. He asked only that they deliver his people from their inevitable death.

But when the transports they had sent to collect the broken masses had returned, it revealed that the contents were armed and fearless.  The city’s defenses fell within hours. Unprepared for the rapid and coordinated attack within their hangers the raiders could not stem the tide. Thus the enslavers became the enslaved. When asked whether the remaining transports should be used to rescue those that remained below Camaxlti replied:

“They have made their choice through their silence. Leave them.”

And so Camaxtli’s new home turned away from his place of birth and abandoned those who had stayed below.

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Uriel on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:24 pm

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Well it depends on your understanding of greed. Greediness can lead to remorse over the loss of possessions. If he views people in his birth-city as his possessions then its reasonable to assume he would feel bad about letting some of them go/leaving them behind.
I don't see the link between survival in a hostile climate where you have to work together to survive, leads to seeing other people as possessions. If we were talking about a planet with slaves and social hierarchies, maybe. But this isn't one, and adding it in is completely unnecessary.

And my point was that Cam leaving them behind at all is unnecessary. It makes the story too complicated too; I wasn't joking when I talked about primarch youth stories being 2 paragraphs at most.
If you look at the OU primarchs, most of their youth stories skip actual details, and cover broad strokes to get past the youth and the Coming of the Emperor into the relevant time period: the Great Crusade and the Heresy.

Keep it short, sweet, simple, and move on.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Nighthaunter

Nighthaunter didn't conquer a city in combat, but with stealth and terror. Cam isn't that guy.
There are no comparisons, beside some quotes about likening his thirst for knowledge as being greedy. Don't make Cam notNighthaunter. Or anyone else. There can be parallels of course, they are unavoidable in parts after all. But try to make Came his own character. (a tough job when you have such few words to use, no doubt)

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Second: I don't intend to do that and haven't reached that part of the story yet.
Well so far it seems out of place. What exactly is the plan here?
I can't see a way it would add to the story without coming across as heavy-handed or forced in. It also seems like it will overcomplicate the story. Again, Primarch stories should be simple and quick. This isn't about their youths, their purpose is to be around in the Great Crusade, cause the Heresy, then disappear to obscurity or death and let the GrimDark develop.
Save detailed storytelling for writefaggotry once the wiki page is done or nearly done at least.


Its just a minor point: it seems odd to describe them as homo-sapiens etc, when you could just call them humans, settlers, colonists etc.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Don't the locals name their worlds?
Its more or less irrelevant. Worlds are never named after a culture they have. Though cultures may have names for a world.
Either way, keep it simple; much like the valhallans and their *russian* themed world, references tend to work better when they aren't shoved into the readers face ever chance available. Call the world something gothic or bland. Things with catchy names in fiction tend to be found in immature writing, unless they are parody or comedy, where it is allowed.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Same as planned I thought.
My point was, Cam wasn't described as a savant with an eidetic memory, where here he is (also very close to being exactly what Kurze is.)
This was not discussed at all mate.

And don't worry about making Cam stand out in his youth story.
Thats way too much detail.
That super concise summary you did? Thats more or less the level of detail you need. BROAD STROKES storytelling. This isn't the place for nuance and detail.

Once again; they are meant to be generic and bland. They just get a general idea of the primarchs character, and personality, and add justification for positive and negative traits. They aren't prose. Don't treat them like that.
The BL novels go into detail because the basic info that let readers know and understand who was who was already there. You are starting at 0, so keep things light, move quickly and cover more ground. It will help you, and the project. Otherwise you bog down into minutiae and more important things get left blank.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:What's the difference between this childhood and Lionel Johnson's?
It has the same problem: they are babies and doing shit that ruins any immersion in the lore, ie killing lions, eldar etc while babies. Big babies, but still babies.
Skip the issue altogether, and either don't mention his baby years at all, or have him raised as a babe.
Simple.



Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Expanded snippet
Maybe, get a finished first draft before posting. Use the wiki to store incomplete writing. The forum was for discussion. Its hard to do that when there are random pieces of work everywhere that aren't finished etc.

Its ok to take a day or so to edit the work to a standard you are happy with.
Giving us completely incomplete work to review is a waste of our and your own time; we can review something for it to be changed completely in the next draft.

Reading over this again, i noticed you mention it being unknown how humans got to the planet.
They got there by colonising it in the DAoT. Manking spread out from Terra (ie Earth).

Again, as mentioned in the Skype chat, and agreed on by some other people iirc, having the sky cities attack a crashed city seems pointless and odd. Convincing them to land isn't a major issue, but there is no point in them raiding it. Especially if the jungle grows so aggressively.

And when did the cities become slavers? There are lots of little details being crammed in without any logic, and it gets messy fast. Keep it simple wasn't advice to take lightly. Its good advice for even amazing writers who are published and famous etc.

The "leave them" quote seems thrown in, like you are justifying Cam being a dick, when his actions previous to this don't follow. Being greedy doesn't mean you are an asshole. Sometimes it will mean you are one, but greedy people aren't usually defined solely by greed outside of fables and mythical tales.
Just have Cam take his people up into the city and move on with the story, this adds nothing and just feels forced. Trying to justify it will bog you down further and bloat the youth story more than it needs to be.


Last edited by Uriel on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : very tired posting this, clearly...)
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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:04 pm

Introduction and proposal rough draft:

The vibrant world of [Tobedetermined] is a deathworld within the [segmentum].[Tobedetermined] is home to a vast ecosystem almost entirely hostile to human beings. From its plants and birds, to its mammalian predators, near every living thing on the planet poses danger to its human inhabitants. Yet despite the environment humans have managed to survive, and in some cases thrive, on this vicious world.
It is unknown how humans first came upon the planet, or the origin of the floating cities peppering its surface. The only certainty is the constant state of war the cloud cities wage as they vie for resources and power. It had been this way for generations when a comet sent one of the cities crashing to the ground.

When survivors searched the comet’s crash site they discovered an infant at its center, safe inside his birthing pod. Seen as a wrathful message from the gods the child was taken in by the survivors and raised in their ways. The boy that would become Camaxtli was taught survival, cannibalism, and war at any cost were necessities of life. As he grew older his body rapidly developed so that by the age of sixteen he was easily the largest male in his family.

Camaxtli became renowned for his martial and leadership skills, coordinating his people to effectively hold back the encroaching jungle and defeat raiders sent out by other cities. When a city state sent transports laden with soldiers to exterminate Camaxtli’s people and harvest them for food they returned filled with Camaxtli’s own fighters to bring death to the city’s inhabitants.

By his forties Camaxtli’s dominion had expanded across dozens of the floating city states giving access to vast sums of wealth and food. By his sixties he was undisputed master of the continent and had begun expansion and mining operations upon the jungle surface below. Yet though his success was unparalleled and his military acumen uncontestable Camaxtli felt no satisfaction from it. While he showed great pride in his achievements and would often tell great stories of his past exploits and victories he found little solace in them.

Even in those early days Camaxtli was driven by a sense of inadequacy, always finding some flaw or failure on his own part that marred the image of his success. His only real sense of achievement coming from the steady growth of his treasury and expansive collections of art, indeed while abstract concepts of honor and glory entertained him they were ultimately valueless. He was certain that in some way he was meant for more than this small world.

Thus when the Emperor of Mankind arrived on [tobedetermined], filling the sky with his Crusade Fleets, he found a willing and eager participant in Camaxtli. Recognizing the Emperor’s majesty as proof of claim Camaxtli offered his allegiance demanding only that “These places I claim for your Crusade shall remain my own. Such control only superseded by you, as is proper to the Ruler of all.” The Emperor agreed, a knowing smile playing across his lips, and sent Camaxtli to meet his sons and brothers.

Camaxlti was unprepared for the affect his introduction into the Primarch fraternity would have upon him and his legion. Accustomed to his unparalleled superiority as a military strategist Camaxtli found himself outmatched. His victories on [tobedetermined] were minor compared to their galactic campaigns, and his strategies irrevocably outdated. Similarly, the social mores he’d acquired in childhood matched poorly to the complexities of the Imperial Court.
This heavily influenced Camaxtli to seek out Hektor Cincinnatus’s mentorship.

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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Uriel on Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:36 pm

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:[to be determined] & [segmentum]
You should probably fill those in to consider this finished. It doesn't take a lot of thought or anything to come up with the name and pick a segmentum - don't try to be clever with it. Just get something there.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Yet despite the environment humans have managed to survive, and in some cases thrive, on this vicious world.
Living in cities floating above the world kind of makes their survival moot, no?
The city that crashes has to endure, but the others live isolated from the 'hostile environment', so surviving it isn't really an issue, let alone an accomplishment.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:It is unknown how humans first came upon the planet, or the origin of the floating cities peppering its surface.
I thought we covered this in the previous posts man... There a reason for the ignoring critique?

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:When survivors searched the comet’s crash site they discovered an infant at its center, safe inside his birthing pod. Seen as a wrathful message from the gods the child was taken in by the survivors and raised in their ways. The boy that would become Camaxtli was taught survival, cannibalism, and war at any cost were necessities of life. As he grew older his body rapidly developed so that by the age of sixteen he was easily the largest male in his family.
I feel the being taught cannibalism, as if it was a normal custom on the world is a weak route to be honest. There are themes open to you with the whole 'people living lives of decadence in the skies, then the culture shock of being dumped planetside and having to adapt to the hard life one finds there.' In other words, they turn to cannibalism out of desperation in their post-apocalyptic state.
Are you intended cannibalism is a cultural thing before they crash?

Also, before the age of 16 Cam would likely be the tallest/biggest person in the group (singling out males specifically also implies females might be larger...). But this is a minor issue with canon primarch growth rates.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Camaxtli became renowned for his martial and leadership skills, coordinating his people to effectively hold back the encroaching jungle and defeat raiders sent out by other cities. When a city state sent transports laden with soldiers to exterminate Camaxtli’s people and harvest them for food they returned filled with Camaxtli’s own fighters to bring death to the city’s inhabitants.
Having him be renowned for martial skills when you only face raiders seems overestimating his abilities, or a case of big fish in a tiny pond (which doesn't feel like what you are going for here).

And I thought we also covered the whole "raiding the crashed city makes no sense" thing...
Even if they did, why would the continue to do so after they meet such staunch resistance from Cam and co.?
It seems a much better solution to have Cam's martial abilities and the combat of his story to occur once they are in the skies. Before that it's kind of just a story about survival, and that's interesting in its own right.
And for the record, jungle survival is less about fortifications and 'holding back the jungle', but more of an "adapt or die". I mean even in Lost they had to adapt to the island to survive, and in real life similar things happen. It's not an opponent you can 'win' against, so keeping the jungle back seems a kind of futile option, especially if we're talking Jumanji-level jungle...

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Even in those early days Camaxtli was driven by a sense of inadequacy, always finding some flaw or failure on his own part that marred the image of his success. His only real sense of achievement coming from the steady growth of his treasury and expansive collections of art, indeed while abstract concepts of honor and glory entertained him they were ultimately valueless. He was certain that in some way he was meant for more than this small world.

I'm not sure I like this route in all honesty. Aside from insecurity/inadequacy being Aubrey's thing, I don't think it's been done, so it is what it is I guess. But it feels a bit weak? I don't know what exactly it is that makes me think that, it just feels a bit unfocused or something.

Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Camaxlti was unprepared for the affect his introduction

It's "effect", not affect. You affect something (verb), and leave an effect on it (noun). Though there are a couple of other meanings and uses of the two that cause confusion, this is the general rule.
also spelling mistake: "social mores"? I assume you mean moves.
Proof-read dude, that's like writing 101. We all mess up or miss things of course, but always proof read.

You are doing what I did on the wiki page too; breaking text up into unnecessary paragraphs. There is no need for half the paragraph shifts you use. 7 mini-paragraphs could easily be 2 paragraphs and look a lot better to boot.

Also, you cover "the coming of the Emperor" in this. Look over every primarch wiki page of the AU and OU - the "Coming of the Emperor" sections are separate from the Youth sections!
I'd advise copying the general format we all more or less established, and don't veer too far from it (adding extra headings isn't the end of the world if they are necessary. But don't abuse them, the uniform format should cover all the major info you have)
If you have a general framework to fill out, it should make things easier for you in all honesty, just use your head and ask someone if you need clarification.

Otherwise the length is about right, although I feel you put too much detail into parts that require little to none, and little detail into parts that should have far more.
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Re: Crimson Teeth General Fiction

Post by Lord Captain Kitten on Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:39 pm

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:[to be determined] & [segmentum]
You should probably fill those in to consider this finished. It doesn't take a lot of thought or anything to come up with the name and pick a segmentum - don't try to be clever with it. Just get something there.

Simple expediency. The names will be determined after the introduction is complete.

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Yet despite the environment humans have managed to survive, and in some cases thrive, on this vicious world.
Living in cities floating above the world kind of makes their survival moot, no?
The city that crashes has to endure, but the others live isolated from the 'hostile environment', so surviving it isn't really an issue, let alone an accomplishment.

No. It's a deathworld, the location is relatively safer but still extremely dangerous. I avoided specific description for the sake of expediency.

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:It is unknown how humans first came upon the planet, or the origin of the floating cities peppering its surface.
I thought we covered this in the previous posts man... There a reason for the ignoring critique?

No, I just forgot... But why does their origin matter?

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:When survivors searched the comet’s crash site they discovered an infant at its center, safe inside his birthing pod. Seen as a wrathful message from the gods the child was taken in by the survivors and raised in their ways. The boy that would become Camaxtli was taught survival, cannibalism, and war at any cost were necessities of life. As he grew older his body rapidly developed so that by the age of sixteen he was easily the largest male in his family.
I feel the being taught cannibalism, as if it was a normal custom on the world is a weak route to be honest. There are themes open to you with the whole 'people living lives of decadence in the skies, then the culture shock of being dumped planetside and having to adapt to the hard life one finds there.' In other words, they turn to cannibalism out of desperation in their post-apocalyptic state.
Are you intended cannibalism is a cultural thing before they crash?


Yes, the implication is cannibalism was culturally acceptable prior to the crash.

Uriel wrote:
Also, before the age of 16 Cam would likely be the tallest/biggest person in the group (singling out males specifically also implies females might be larger...). But this is a minor issue with canon primarch growth rates.

It's no big deal.

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Camaxtli became renowned for his martial and leadership skills, coordinating his people to effectively hold back the encroaching jungle and defeat raiders sent out by other cities. When a city state sent transports laden with soldiers to exterminate Camaxtli’s people and harvest them for food they returned filled with Camaxtli’s own fighters to bring death to the city’s inhabitants.
Having him be renowned for martial skills when you only face raiders seems overestimating his abilities, or a case of big fish in a tiny pond (which doesn't feel like what you are going for here).

It's an ongoing theme. Though the word "raiders" has always felt out of place.

Uriel wrote:
And I thought we also covered the whole "raiding the crashed city makes no sense" thing...
Even if they did, why would the continue to do so after they meet such staunch resistance from Cam and co.?
It seems a much better solution to have Cam's martial abilities and the combat of his story to occur once they are in the skies. Before that it's kind of just a story about survival, and that's interesting in its own right.
And for the record, jungle survival is less about fortifications and 'holding back the jungle', but more of an "adapt or die". I mean even in Lost they had to adapt to the island to survive, and in real life similar things happen. It's not an opponent you can 'win' against, so keeping the jungle back seems a kind of futile option, especially if we're talking Jumanji-level jungle...

You stated it, but I disagreed. We never came to a conclusion on how to proceed. The story does expand on Cam's martial abilities in the sky by noting the expansion of his dominion. What is more we have discussed that the Jungle is Jumani-like which means you are literally fighting sections of the Jungle off. I didn't make a statement about fortifications, it's simply managing to keep it at bay for as long as possible.

Anyways how is he going to reach one of those cities without getting help from one of them? (Intentional or unintentional) If he fly's up there with a bunch of other dudes it would lean too much on the aerial combat route. Why wouldn't Cama attempt that strategy in the future and develop it? Their assault is already justified - they are looking for food - but it appears I'll need to emphasize that a bit more.

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Even in those early days Camaxtli was driven by a sense of inadequacy, always finding some flaw or failure on his own part that marred the image of his success. His only real sense of achievement coming from the steady growth of his treasury and expansive collections of art, indeed while abstract concepts of honor and glory entertained him they were ultimately valueless. He was certain that in some way he was meant for more than this small world.

I'm not sure I like this route in all honesty. Aside from insecurity/inadequacy being Aubrey's thing, I don't think it's been done, so it is what it is I guess. But it feels a bit weak? I don't know what exactly it is that makes me think that, it just feels a bit unfocused or something.
You'll have to explain why you dislike it and identify the weakness. Is it lack of content and substance?

Uriel wrote:
Lord Captain Kitten wrote:Camaxlti was unprepared for the affect his introduction
It's "effect", not affect. You affect something (verb), and leave an effect on it (noun). Though there are a couple of other meanings and uses of the two that cause confusion, this is the general rule.
also spelling mistake: "social mores"? I assume you mean moves.
Proof-read dude, that's like writing 101. We all mess up or miss things of course, but always proof read.

Affect can also imply the 'effect' an action has on a person's emotions that was my intention.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Social+mores

Uriel wrote:
You are doing what I did on the wiki page too; breaking text up into unnecessary paragraphs. There is no need for half the paragraph shifts you use. 7 mini-paragraphs could easily be 2 paragraphs and look a lot better to boot.

Alright.

Uriel wrote:
Also, you cover "the coming of the Emperor" in this. Look over every primarch wiki page of the AU and OU - the "Coming of the Emperor" sections are separate from the Youth sections!
I'd advise copying the general format we all more or less established, and don't veer too far from it (adding extra headings isn't the end of the world if they are necessary. But don't abuse them, the uniform format should cover all the major info you have)
If you have a general framework to fill out, it should make things easier for you in all honesty, just use your head and ask someone if you need clarification.
Alright.
uriel wrote:
Otherwise the length is about right, although I feel you put too much detail into parts that require little to none, and little detail into parts that should have far more.
Cool.

Lord Captain Kitten

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